Shaha's article, a Muslim atheist

I just read an interesting letter on Facebook from a Islamic atheist about why he is vocal about his atheism, particularly about the circumstances that allow him to be more safely and comfortably out. His parents are both dead. Well it's a bit unclear as to whether his dad is actually dead or just not a part of his life at all. At any rate, check it out. His name is Alom Shaha and though I saw this posted on Facebook it is actually from New Humanist magazine. Here's the article.

http://newhumanist.org.uk/2784/no-more-lies

I think its an interesting point of view that people like me who didn't grow up in a particularly religious atmosphere or culture can learn something new from. Even though I didn't grow up in an Islamist culture, I too have sometimes seen myself tend to not be vocal about my atheistic beliefs, partly out of some habit of not upsetting people, so I can relate even though I come from a very different experience. It still resonates. I also found his discussion of whether or not being called 'brave' is accurate, helful or harmful. Hopefully I get a chance to pick up and read the book he's published. I'm particularly interested since he's a science teacher and I'm soon to go back to get my B.Ed, though not as a science teacher. Of course I have a big interest in science. I've been a bit worried if being vocal about my atheism will cause me any problems as a teacher. Of course I have been teaching English here in Korea for nine years now, but am quite careful with my treatment of this subject in class. I don't want to be too preachy, since my job  is to teach language, not to be an atheist missionary. I'm curious about other atheist teachers' experiences, philosophies, and thoughts about whether or not to disclose on the job, how much, and in what way. Any comments?

Secular studies?

I've been spending some time on CFI's forums these days. It's a secular website and organization. CFI stands for Center for Inquiry. http://www.centerforinquiry.net/

I joined because I felt I wanted to belong to a community of other like minded individuals. That is one thing the churches have going for them, they have a community that is organized, that they can belong to.

There is a post I've been following a bit lately that started with a poll.

Should the secular movement push for colleges to offer degrees in Secularism?

The first member to post said "The study of Secularism would be where political science, public policy, and religious studies meet. I’ll update this thread with my ideas shortly, feel free to discuss"

A bit down the forum I weighed in with some responses. The boxes are quotes from other members, I've left out their names, and after that is my reply. Also everything below in italics is not my words, but other members replies. Also note, this is just a few snippets, I haven't copied every single post in the thread, only the comments I replied to as a way of a bit of context for my responses. 

Someone going to school to study Theology would most likely believe to some degree that the documents and religious institutions they study hold some holy power, this is however a completely one sided opinion, perhaps even more so than someone presupposing that government and religion should be separate.

So far as I know, secular colleges and universities do not offer degrees in theology. (Maybe I’m just under-informed on this point.) So when you speak of “someone going to school to study theology,” you must be speaking of theological seminaries. Why should a theological seminary offer a degree in secularism? That makes no sense to me.

As for secular institutions of higher education, “secular studies” encompasses the entire curriculum, including the study of religion, which is studied in a non-doctrinal fashion. So in secular institutions, a degree in secularism makes no sense.

In sum, I don’t see how this proposal makes sense for any institution.

My reply . . .

I just had an hour long telephone conversation with my brother who is a minister, and from that conversation I could say that even in a seminary there might be some open minded individuals who think it is important to have some knowledge of how the other side thinks. I don’t know if a whole degree in those institutions would be realistic, but perhaps some courses might fit into their path in some way. If society becomes more and more secular and secularist become more outspoken and political, then there might be very practical reasons for those entering seminary to study it. It may help them to figure out where their religious institutions and vocations will fit in an ever changing world, so it might be a stretch, but I wouldn’t say it would be completely unthinkable.

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Part of one of the later replies to the thread was "IMO, it’s not really worthwhile; university students that are majoring in the hard sciences and philosophy are effectively “learning secularism” as it is - as long as their professors are good at their jobs."

Here's my response to that . . .

I think there is truth in that, most of my profs were pretty good at their jobs, though I was already an atheist. I still think it’s possible that having, at least a course if not an entire degree, that is specifically named secularism would be useful. If some of these classes are as you say effectively teaching secularism, rather than ask “Why call a course or degree Secularism” ask “Why not?” I’m not claiming there might not be good arguments against it, but I think perhaps naming it could do well in promoting more understanding and respect for it. I also think the bent would be a little bit different that a degree aimed at teaching hard sciences and philosophy, and I think it would have some slightly more specialized goals. In the above category, learning about secularism is merely a by product, whereas if the course was named for secularism it would be put more front and center. It might study secular social movements, political movements, philosophical stances and yes of course the influence of hard sciences and philosophy. I think though, having that name would probably propel the research in slightly different directions, and if many people were studying this that it would go in directions that we can’t fully predict (though we can make some good guestimates I imagine) where such a field might go, how it might branch off in the future. Speaking of branching off, perhaps it’s simply one of the next logical branches that are to inevitably come from such degrees as hard sciences, philosophy, and I’d add religious studies.

I also think that it makes secularism in general more visible, and less misunderstood, to be vocal, politely vocal perhaps (though I’m reminded of a Hitchens article about when rudeness is in fact called for). In the past I have had some times where I was tempted to self censor my self, or keep my atheism under wraps, or at least sugarcoat it with a label that is going to be easier for religious people to swallow. Other times I’ve made no secret about it. Personally, I don’t usually go out of my way to bring it up, but also try to be truthful and honest about what I really think and believe if asked. I think that is part of the problem, self censorship, or being too quiet about it, out of the fear of upsetting someone, or simply to avoid conflict. Sure there are some situations where that might be the best route, but I wouldn’t say it is anywhere near universal.

I look to the whole queer movement, and how their movement to come out of the closet, and be proud of what they are, how that has done a lot to make the world, or at least parts of the world, more accepting and less judgmental. I just today read something on someone’s blog about how a gay teen challenged his mother who was very anti gay and managed to change her mind about spreading hate towards gays. If he’d just shut up about it, and kept it a secret knowing how his homophobic parents would have reacted, he’d never have had a chance to change her mind. (I wasn’t able to post the link, somehow I got blocked, but it was called (A Teen’s Brave Response to “I’m Christian, Unless You’re Gay”) and it was on a blog called “single dad laughing” the april 2, 2012 post if you are interested in reading it. I sometimes wonder if the reason there are no courses, or very few to my knowledge or degrees that explicitly label themselves as secularism studies or something similar, is perhaps a result of a habit of avoiding calling what it is, when it comes to secularism, maybe even a subconscious self censorship that even secularists themselves don’t really recognize. It’s just a thought, but I think it’s a thought that such a degree or course might be able to research. It might turn out to be completely wrong, but isn’t it premature to say that without researching it first?

These days it’s become much more accepted, would shows like ‘Will and Grace’ have been possible thirty years ago for instance, and enjoyed by both gay and straight people. I know there is still loads of homophopia, but I also think there is a lot more straight people who are willing to stand up and say that gays are normal, natural and should have all the rights as anyone, and not be feared. Maybe it seems trivial to talk about mere sitcoms, but that existence hasn’t come about in a vacuum, there has also been a lot of political advocates of gay rights, and people doing ‘queer theory’ research in university. Another example might be the feminism movement. They have their courses that are specifically named Feminist theories, and feminist critiques and research. I think that has helped their struggle to bring understanding and equality to the world. And yes, there are still lots of misogynists around, but I do think they have had a positive impact from being vocal, visible, and outspoken not only in the general population and politics, but in academia as well. I think a good argument could be made that secularism might also benefit from taking that approach, and doing it explicitly.

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Readers (if anybody is actually reading this lol) what are your thoughts on the matter?

Also, if anyone wants to see the post on CFI's forums for context, you can find it here - http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/6244/

Edit and Update: Found some such degrees do in fact exist

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/may/13/secular-studies-pitzer-zuckerman

http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/field_groups/secular_studies/index.asp
http://www.trincoll.edu/Academics/centers/isssc/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.saybrook.edu/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/spirited-atheist/post/college-too-late-too-little-for-secular-studies-in-america/2011/08/31/gIQAxgPBsJ_blog.html

I've been putting something off

Quite some time ago my brother asked me about my thoughts on religion. He knows I'm a non believer, it's not secret. He is a new minister, having recently finished his Masters of divinity. Back then he wasn't a full time minister. He wanted to know what I think about religion, what I dislike, like etc. I told him I'd write something and get back to him. I wrote about half of what I'd outlined in one late night, and never got around to finishing it, partly due to being busy, forgetful, and yes, a little bit anxious. I've been avoiding my atheist confessional.

I have a dilemma. I don't usually go out of my way to tell religious people what I believe (Adult Education Foundations time was an uncharacteristic experiment in being very vocal, but that's because I wanted to get ideas from other people I might have used in my study) but I don't try to make it a secret either. I strive for honesty while still being polite and respectful. I need to clarify something. I don't equate being respectful with not allowing myself to disagree with someone's beliefs. I believe it's possible to show respect to a person without necessarily having respect for what they believe. However, I find people react a lot more strongly when the topic is religion. If I totally respected what religious people believed then I'd likely join them in that belief.

I like to think of the British style of debate that I see on programs like Intelligence Squared, where an atheist and a believer can debate each other, be sometimes very critical of each others opinions, but argue with reason and logic and avoid ad hominem attacks. It's the exact opposite of the kind of debate shouting louder than the guy or girl you disagree with match that you'll see on Fox TV. Atheists are sometimes accused of being 'Militant' or 'Disrespectful', but usually all we are doing is saying what we believe to be rational and moral. Sometimes we are reacting to what we find offensive. It sometimes gets lost, that if religious people have the right to be offended and upset by people criticizing their beliefs, atheists have an equal right to be offended if religious people assume that we don't have the right to be offended about some religious beliefs and actions. Anyway, I digress.

Back to my main point. My dilemma. I want to be honest and not avoid having a dialogue with my brother about this. However I worry that what I write, my honest opinions and feelings about religion, something to which he has devoted his life and career to, might upset him. He's my brother. My relationship with him, since I love him very much, is more important than convincing him that I'm right, he's wrong. However, he asked. I believe in truthful and honest debate, and I think that perhaps the times when it's hardest to be true to what you believe in may in fact be the most rewarding times to do just that. To be honest, I don't believe he is the type to take it too much to heart permanently, but I don't want to screw this up. He's my brother and I want to keep it that way. Also recently, my brother and his wife just had a baby girl. Perhaps being a new parent, although making them very happy, might also be a little stressful. Maybe some time to adjust would be good before dropping a bomb. I haven't even met their beautiful daughter yet.

Anyway, it's been so long, I'm not even sure if my brother still remembers, but I don't feel quite right just not ever replying. I thought about finding some people I trust to read what I've written and see if it comes off overly caustic. I worry that he thinks I've forgotten about it or am just avoiding it. I haven't forgotten. I think perhaps I'll call him and tell him I haven't forgotten and let him know some of the reasons why I haven't gotten to it.

Accepted to B.Ed

So it is official, I've been accepted to do my Bachelors of Education. I'm looking forward to studying again and am optimistic about this move. I missed being a university student, living in that environment. I'll be living in Thunder Bay, Ontario. Heard it's hellish cold in the winter and overrun with black flies in the summer. I'll deal. I've heard that a lot of the program involves writing reflections. I think that is something I can get into. I haven't got much else to say about it right now, a bit tired.

Humanist Funerals

Read this alternet post by Greta Christina that turned up on my Facebook wall and really liked it

When It's Not God's Plan: 8 Things to Say to Grieving Nonbelievers

http://www.alternet.org/story/154570/when_it%27s_not_god%27s_plan%3A_8_things_to_say_to_grieving_nonbelievers?akid=8436.200602.aJavFx&rd=1&t=12

The article was written by Greta Christina, who has a pretty cool blog. And if you liked her article, here are some other ones she's written on Alternet, and if you googled I'm sure you could find her blog easy enough.
http://www.alternet.org/authors/8504/


And here was my own comment about her article. As seems to be a re-occuring theme, my blog posts are copied from other posts or emails I've sent other places and modified slightly with intros, outros, or extra tidbits.

Really liked this article. At my grandfather's funeral the preacher, who had never met my grandfather personally to the best of my knowledge, spent a lot of time preaching and proselytizing during the funeral. I felt like he robbed me of a comforting day to see my grandfather off. He kept saying things like how happy my grandfather would be if we accepted Jesus and such things. I honestly wanted to punch him in the face, but then that would just ruin the funeral even more. It was painful, as my grandfather was the most peaceful and non judgemental people I've ever known. He also never, to my memory, ever preached or talked about God at all. He might have been a believer, he might have been an atheist, or an agnostic, but he never really spoke about it, at least never in my presence, and as I lived next door, I spent as much, if not more time growing up at my grandparents house. So to have this man who didn't know him preaching in his name, and trying to manipulate people into joining the flock felt like an insult to the memory of my grandfather. I'd even wrote a song about it, and my cousin Sean helped me record it. I think I've lost the recording, but the line I remember was 'An Underhay (the preacher's name) would never know what it meant to see him smile'. To this day it still bothers me a bit when I think of it. Although, over time, I've become less angry. He was probably doing what he thought was right at the time. But at the time it really hurt, and even some of the religious people at the funeral commented how he was out of line. I just feel like a funeral should be a place that tries to be comforting to the family and friends who loved the person, and should respect that it's an the wrong place to preach, at least the type of fire and brimstone stuff he was preaching, telling folks if they don't convert they will go to hell. Anyway, this article seems to have brought up old memories, and I found it really practical and hopeful. I really hope that when I pass away I can have a humanist funeral that is true to my own life, that can still be comforting to any and all who loved me, regardless of whether or not they are believers or atheists like me.

Exit Plans, Future home comings, and quitting my masters (yes, you heard right)

Randomly found this post by another blogger about why he likes teaching in Taiwan better that working as a financial advisor. It was interesting, with thoughts about being a teacher as well as a few pieces of advice about investing in real estate as opposed to the other kinds of things he would have told us to invest in if he were still working in his previous profession.

You can read his post here:  http://range.wordpress.com/2006/12/05/why-becoming-a-teacher-was-one-of-the-best-things-of-my-life/#comment-84465

Anyway, I liked his optimism. After reading it I commented on his post and figured my comment could be part of my own post since I haven't posted in awhile.

here's my reply, under that I'll give a bit of a low down on why I quit my masters degree, even though it was interesting, and I do believe I certainly had the ability to finish it. 

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I’ve been teaching for the past 8 years in Korea, for the past three years at the University level. My wife and I are thinking of making the move to Canada sometime soon. I’m weighing what I’ll do back home, get the Bachelor of Education and teach high school in back home is one option.

I’m interested in the advice you gave about buying real estate as investment property as we were considering that. We were a bit worried about problems happening with a property living so far away, like the heater tanks or something. Anyway, figure between my Korean pension which I can cash in if I move home and what my wife has saved we’ll have roughly $60-70 grand, but going back to school will cost if I don’t work.

Wondering if it’s still better to try to get the mortgage credit line before going back to study and spending cash since I’d have a bigger downpayment then or waiting till I get certified which would be an extra year or two and start working. Might not even qualify for a mortgage if I’m not working even if I’ve got a downpayment ready. That’s why the thought crossed my mind of taking one more two year contract here and applying for a mortgage back in Canada while I’m still employed and renting it out, something like a duplex. If I did that I couldn’t get my 15 grand or so pension till I left, and the other 40 grand is tied up in our apartment and stuff here. To do the stay here but invest in Canada thing we’d have to get rid of our nice big apartment and get our 40 grand our of deposit and take a very small place supplied by the university and sell furniture / send some stuff back to Canada. Being kind of strange going back to living in a small one room studio type place after being used to a huge three bedroom apartment, but perhaps a livable temporary situation if it helps make a better future.

Of course not %100 sure which province I’d work in, so that’s another thing to consider. All in all it’s a hard decision, or at least a big one. Oh, and my wife might not come back immediately to Canada, might spend some quality time with her family before moving and start the process of applying for permanent residence for her. That apparently takes about 6 months to be processed. This might be kind of hard, but hell military people do that kind of thing for work, and it would be a one time thing. I could either live with my parents while I study if I do in in my hometown, or a small cheap one room in another town if I study somewhere else. This is a very recent decision. Found out two weeks ago was losing my job due to downsizing, and a change in regulations that made me not qualified since I hadn’t had two years uni level work before this contract (only had one). We were planning on more like 3-5 years more here, but this kind of made me decide perhaps it’s better to go home and try to build a new career before I’m too old rather than finding another job over here. I’ll be 40 next year : )

Then to make things weird, after pretty much deciding to go home, I’m told last week, that they reconsidered, or the restrictions were relaxed, and that my 3 years teaching public high school here would qualify me. Well, I’d already made the emotional jump to I’m going home.

Anyway, I’m getting quite rambly. Just wanted to say, I enjoyed your post, and gave me food for thought.

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As promised, why I quit.

I just had doubts that I was going in the right direction for me. It just didn't feel right in my heart, and I figured better to bail now with some of the money intact, and more importantly with the time to take a different path, which is at this point leaning towards a bachelor of education and teaching high school, doing a different masters that is not distance and more in line with what I really want to research if I do the research thing. In my FI Assignment I was still trying to bring the secular humanism / atheism as a social movement learning area into play and was told to keep it down to a minimum because it was taking me 'off track'. Unfortunately, off track, is where I want to be if I spend the time, energy and money to to a masters degree. Perhaps a better way to put it is that I feel that for who I am at the most basic level, the direction I was taking, whittling that stuff down to a minimum was off track. So I tossed in the towel without a fight. Not that I was really being fought against, so much as being told that what I was really interested in didn't belong in Adult Education. So I decided that maybe I was trying to put the proverbial square peg in the round hole, and just decided to look for different holes.

Now this isn't meant as an attack on the program or my advisor. Everything my advisor said was reasonable. Well maybe I could have fought an intellectual battle on the grounds that it 'ought' to be part of Adult education, or that all areas in which I saw parallels to some degree or other (critical theory, queer theory, feminist approaches, or approaches having to do with racial inequalities , at one point were not part of Adult education. Someone had to be the first to declare that these were real issues.  But as I said, I decided not to. I do look back on 99% of my brief time in the program with great fondness. I met some great, intelligent, caring people, both fellow students and professors in the Adult Education department. I may have had one upsetting encounter with one professor, but all in all it wasn't that big of a deal, though at the time it was painful to go though. And it was not with my advisor. I do regret the fact that I won't get the chance to work with my advisor over the next few years as I know I would have learned much from her. I do hope that my paths cross someday with all the people I met. It was an intense, reflective period, and I do not regret it. I don't even so much care that I blew over two grand, plus air tickets for me and my wife. I had a great trip home with her, we spent time traveling with my parents, and I think the experience is worth what I paid for it. I do still believe there is something special about the program. 

I do still intend on reading and informally studying all the books I did buy, and articles I did accumulate, since learning is never a waste. I can enjoy it for its own sake, without a degree at the end. I also tend to keep up this blog. Maybe it will take on some new directions and be more broad in range that strictly adult education topics. I think I'll still write and reflect about them as I read, though through a different lens. Adult education will be less the lens I look through, and rather one of the things I look though with my own evolving lens. It has to be noted though that it will also to some degree tint my lens perhaps. I'm not going to through my assignment in the garbage. I still haven't taken down my Study project off the wall, though I might. I'm still reflecting on certain aspects of it. Still processing the decision to bail on it and what it means to my future.

The funny thing is, doing a B.Ed and teaching high school is not really someplace I'd get on a soap box. I don't believe in indoctrinating kids. Even if I believe in what I'm selling. So, am I being a hypocrite or being irrational if I do this. I don't necessarily think so. It's quite a bit cheaper, and something I have quite a bit of related experience with. It's a means to an end perhaps. A career. However, it's a career I do think I could enjoy. I do want to know what it feels like to teach in a different setting, within my own culture and country. I want that because I think it can help me put certain things in perspective by comparison. Also I'm a little interested in being able to teach a subject for its own sake, either English literature, or science, rather that that being the back drop and material used to teach the language itself.

I still have some interest in doing a masters, perhaps in philosophy, philosophy of science, comparative (and critical) religious studies, and then going on to do a PHD. I might still do it. Who knows. But the thing is. I'm almost 40. That takes a lot of time. I want to be able to go back home and live in Canada again. When my wife comes with me and gets her permanent residency I want to know I can at least provide for us financially in the beginning while she adjusts to living in a new country. I know that's a big deal since I've been doing it for eight years. And I can be working as a high school teacher a lot faster with a one year (possible one and a half to two depending on where I go), whereas doing the PH.D route. I might still be able to chip away at that stuff part time while I teach high school since high school teachers have summers off. Or I might just fill that particular part of my needs in a different way. I'm definitely going to join some secular humanist groups and get involved. I may do some freelance journalistic writing on the subjects I'm curious and passionate about in that area. I've already done some writing. I certainly won't ignore who I am, but that's only a part of who I am. I'm also a musician, poet, philosopher, husband, cat lover (dogs ok too), science buff, traveller, and basic normal average guy. 

There other post Korea career I considered strongly was journalism, as I could really put my ideas out there. The thing is, I'm not sure how stable a career that is, unless I'm willing to be super ambitious, move around a lot for jobs and ladder climbing and what not. Would that be fair to my wife. Besides I can still write and publish stuff occasionally when I feel I have something I need to say without making it my career. Like the masters/ph.d route I haven't totally ruled this out. In fact it will likely be a small very occasional thing I do. Like music and recording, acting and other creative things, I don't need to necessarily aim at them being my 'career' in order to create and express myself in them. I'm ok with that these days. Not that there's not a small (read slightly big) part of me that wishes I was 20, and in acting school with 20 years ahead of me to try to make a real go at it before growing up and getting a 'real' job. I do think I'll get back into acting when I get back in Canada, though as a hobby.

Other careers I very briefly thought about and pretty much canned after a few days of research into them are 

1. Lawyer - figuring I could make lots of money to buy recording equipment for my basement and a house for that basement to be attached to. Tossed it since I figured I'd lose my metaphorical soul, and drown in the pressure of law school, the amount of financial commitment it would be. Beside I had my Matlock moment already when I took my slum landlord to court over him trying to steal our damage deposits. It was fun pretending to be the guy from Law and Order or Matlock. Matlock wins I guess. I think the lawyer seed was planted early in my life because of the movie "Inherit the Wind" which was based on the Scopes trial. That lawyer possibly beats Matlock since he was arguing my dream case. But then thankfully I reminded myself that these were all TV lawyers and not real life. Still legal issues involving separation of church and state and related constitutional law are still very intriguing to me.

2. Commercial Diver - I've got my advanced open water recreational license, and there is a commercial diving school in my home province. However, researching it I pretty much shit canned it. It's dangerous. I do love diving but it's not that big of a passion of mine. I'd likely end up hating it. I also read a lot on message boards suggesting that it's a small fraction of commercial divers who make 100 grand a year, it's very transitory and with living for weeks or months on oil rigs I'd go insane and my marriage would probably not survive. Also, an experienced diver brought up that dive schools exaggerate the amount of jobs, the amount of pay most divers make because they make their money by getting students through the in door. One guys analogy was that it's like claiming that if you take our soccer coaching you will be guaranteed Beckham's salary. Of course there's a lot of negativity on the internet, and I'm sure some people are going to be doing the right thing. After all, some people are doing it and enjoy it, just like many other careers. I realized that it's just not for me at this stage in my life. Maybe if I was 20 and had time to work my way up.

Anyway, my super power of non sequitur rays have certainly been worked out tonight. The ramble is come to an end. I do hope that we all (adult education people) meet again and that you all are super successful in your paths. I know I'll find mine and all the paths are branches, and all contain an adventure. I hope you still get some nice reflection out of the blog, even though I jumped ship. I'm free diving folks!

Finished my FI assignment a few days ago, finally

It's nice to get that behind me. I was sick the last few days, finally the medicine seems to be making me feel a bit better. So time to creep out of the apartment and go shopping, dinner and a movie. I'm supposed to get comments on my assignment in about 10 days. I know there were probably things that needed work, but figure that's ok. I can't expect to start out doing everything perfect, otherwise why bother needing to learn.